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This is a response to: Out of the best of care out there Canada was 10 and America 11. In other words pretty darn even. You pay for the care in taxes; we pay in premiums. And most important; we don't die waiting. NT
Beard
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Reged: 12/24/05
Posts: 56320
You don't die waiting, but you do die not getting treatment at all because you can't afford it, and die somewhat more often from getting that treatment.
02/24/20 06:47 PM




But really, the point you started out trying to make is that universal healthcare is bad, not whether the US model was better or worse than the Canadian one. In the final analysis, you demonstrated that the US system is a poorer one than that in all of the other 'socialized' systems studied, including that of Canada. So, really, what have you ended up proving? That the Canadian system has much room for improvement? Agreed. That the US system is better than that of any other developed nation? Not so much. If they ALL get better results at a lower cost through their socialized systems, maybe it's time the US took a closer look at socialized solutions, rather than rejecting them out of hand because of that “socialist” label.

If no one from the future stops you from doing it, then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* The coronavirus is hurting stocks, but here’s what could be the real problem
AskMedia
02/24/20 01:46 PM
xx * 1. With the coronavirus killing thousands and threatening to tank the global economy, I feel like more people should be talking about the fact that Trump fired the entire pandemic response team two ye
Blockhead
02/24/20 03:30 PM
xx * You're not giving him any credit for all the money he has saved, so that he can spend it on something else. NT
Beard
02/24/20 04:52 PM
xx * LOL Thought for sure this would be a link to Sanders surging in the polls! Never mind! NT
1
colleenag
02/24/20 02:24 PM
xx * Huh? NT
sneakypie
02/24/20 04:16 PM
xx * If Sanders Sweeps, The Stock Market Weeps, Also Boeing Is At A Pivot Point
colleenag
02/24/20 04:30 PM
xx * Is that because he will impose tariffs on certain businesses from certain countries; give socialist bailouts to bankrupt farmers; publicly attack corporations on a whim causing their stock price to
Blockhead
02/24/20 05:11 PM
xx * LOL Even he doesn't know! Just that it will cost TRILLONS just having the government run health care. Let's ask Canada how single payer is working out...let's ask Venezuela how socialism is working
colleenag
02/24/20 05:18 PM
xx * I'm reluctant to speak for the entire country, but I have great confidence that the Canadian consensus would be that single payer healthcare works just fine,
Beard
02/24/20 05:38 PM
xx * The Pitfalls of Single-Payer Health Care: Canada’s Cautionary Tale
colleenag
02/24/20 05:45 PM
xx * There's a few things in the article that are a bit misleading. Healthcare in Canada is administered provincially so it's hard to generalize everything. In some provinces you can definitely buy
Corndogger
02/24/20 08:32 PM
xx * You said, “Ask Canada” and I answered for it. Your own article makes exactly the same point, that at least 94% of Canadians support its healthcare system.
Beard
02/24/20 06:14 PM
xx * Thanks for answering. I think the best part of the report is that Canada can come off as this leader in social medicine when it secretly has it "parachute" next door in America. Where the really
colleenag
02/24/20 06:25 PM
xx * That conclusion seems to be supported by the opinion of one doctor (and the very conservative National Review), but it's mostly BS.
Beard
02/24/20 06:33 PM
xx * Well, then, that says it all. If the Canadian program is working so well then their populations tax dollars would not be paying the doctors "next door". NT
colleenag
02/24/20 06:40 PM
xx * Does it say it all? Isn't there a lot more to an effective healthcare system than that?
Beard
02/24/20 06:54 PM
xx * The point is we use services in other countries with our OWN dollars, not taxes of others. And we make the calls not some bureaucrat in govt. NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:09 PM
xx * Spending money from an insurance fund often relies on spending someone else's money; that's how shared risk works, regardless of whether it's run by the government or some insurance company.
Beard
02/24/20 07:29 PM
xx * Looks like we could split hairs all night. You say tumato; I say tomato; let's just say we couldn't disagree more and have a nice night! :) NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:31 PM
xx * Splitting hairs? Is that all this is? Seems like something a lot larger and more fundamental than that. NT
Beard
02/24/20 07:38 PM
xx * Oh dear. Maybe we should call the United Nations and see if we can get an emergency session! NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:40 PM
xx * Wow, now you're really getting into universal healthcare. Let's get all the individual nations with a good system before we go that route. NT
Beard
02/24/20 07:46 PM
xx * oops forgort the sarcasm font...my bad! NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:53 PM
xx * "ahead of only the United States" -- hmmm NT
Blockhead
02/24/20 06:01 PM
xx * what good is it being 10 instead of 11 if you have to wait 3 times as long to get it? NT
colleenag
02/24/20 06:07 PM
xx * I think the most important point is that you get it and don't have to be denied care because you can't afford it. That, and the fact that the US pays considerably more for poorer results. NT
Beard
02/24/20 06:18 PM
xx * Out of the best of care out there Canada was 10 and America 11. In other words pretty darn even. You pay for the care in taxes; we pay in premiums. And most important; we don't die waiting. NT
colleenag
02/24/20 06:31 PM
xx * You don't die waiting, but you do die not getting treatment at all because you can't afford it, and die somewhat more often from getting that treatment.
Beard
02/24/20 06:47 PM
xx * We have Medicare for sick, disabled and poor. Those that can work and WANT to have health insurance have a variety of plans and different premiums for their care. And they don't die waiting for it.
colleenag
02/24/20 07:02 PM
xx * Of course you have bureaucrats telling you what treatment you can have and what is acceptable. Most of them work for the insurance companies, where they often receive bonuses for denying treatment.
Beard
02/24/20 07:19 PM
xx * The inadequacies of social medicine is no speculation. It's failed numerous times in numerous countries. Medicare for the sick/disabled/poor is undeniable but for all is unacceptable...for me. NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:28 PM
xx * Where has it failed, and what happened when it did? NT
Beard
02/24/20 07:39 PM
xx * How Socialism Destroyed Venezuela
colleenag
02/24/20 07:47 PM
xx * I tend to think that corruption, mismanagement, falling oil prices and totalitarianism caused the damage and lead to the U.S sanctions and unrest, but in the present context,
Beard
02/24/20 08:34 PM
xx * From what I comprehended, even though the country was flush with oil profits the country ended up having to print money to pay for ever growing and eventually corrupt social programs.
colleenag
02/24/20 08:39 PM
xx * So, was it the socialism that caused the problem, or corruption and incompetence, aggravated by falling oil prices? In any case,
Beard
02/24/20 08:50 PM
xx * It was the socialism. NT
colleenag
02/24/20 09:09 PM
xx * New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
Blockhead
02/24/20 07:14 PM
xx * This study is from 2009, here's an article from 2017 that cites 63,000 Canadians left the country for medical treatment ...
Dreamer Administrator
02/24/20 11:41 PM
xx * Even if this number is accurate and all represent cases that would otherwise have been paid for by Canadian medicare,
Beard
02/25/20 09:42 AM
xx * I'd rather die because I chose not to spend my money on premiums than to pay taxes for health care only to die waiting anyway. NT
colleenag
02/24/20 07:18 PM
xx * Easy to say now, but I expect that if faced with that situation, you'd be regretting your decision not to pay for health insurance. But what about those who don't have the money to pay premiums,
Beard
02/24/20 07:34 PM
xx * I only say it because I decided I WANT to live and so worked hard and earned the money to buy health insurance. And there are programs in the US that take care of the indigent; ask the thousands of
colleenag
02/24/20 07:39 PM
xx * Not all that need it in your system now are not getting it. If involving the government just waters down the product and makes it more expensive,
Beard
02/24/20 07:45 PM
xx * I'd be interested in the countries you think socialized medicine is working well. That should be fun researching. And yes, I do have a heart. Like I said medicare for those that truly need it is
colleenag
02/24/20 07:52 PM
xx * Which are the ones who shouldn't get it? For a start, why not look at all 10 of the 11 countries with cheaper, more successful systems than the US. After that, there are plenty of others. NT
Beard
02/24/20 08:41 PM
xx * Whoa. Just checked the breakdown of quality of care, US vs. Canada...main article misleading. Effective, safe, coordinated, patient-centered AND timeliness of care = US better nation than Canada!
colleenag
02/24/20 09:07 PM
xx * But more expensive, less efficient, less equitable and leading to less healthy lives. And still, that's just comparing the US to one of the other countries with socialized medicine
Beard
02/24/20 09:37 PM
xx * I'm not done exploring...not sure some of these countries the comparison is apples to apples. And personally I'd rather pay to get the quality of care over efficiency and
colleenag
02/24/20 09:50 PM
xx * I rather doubt that that's why you live in the US and I live in Canada, but I'm quite confident that you would be as happy, probably more happy, if you also had a single payer healthcare system.
Beard
02/24/20 10:02 PM
xx * LOL, no. Less govt the better, for me. I love my country; wouldn't want to leave it ever. I hope you are as happy in Canada too! NT
colleenag
02/24/20 10:07 PM
xx * I do love my country, and I'm very happy here, for more reasons than just healthcare, though I do admit that the novelty has worn off Winter, but I hear that some Americans have Winter, too. :-) NT
1
Beard
02/25/20 09:47 AM
xx * No, just because. NT
1
Beard
02/24/20 05:16 PM
xx * Oh, well, as long as it's not the fault of Trump and the Republicans. They only seem to be responsible when there's credit to be had. NT
2
Beard
02/24/20 01:57 PM

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