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This is a response to: It seems like every season of Survivor and Big Brother anymore
FurlessBat
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I really think it depends on the player. My biggest issue with Michele winning is just it doesn't look like she did much, idk it was the edit or
05/20/16 05:11 PM




Michele's personality. Most recent winners like Mike, Jeremy, Natalie, Tony, etc played somehow major roles in their seasons. Perhaps Michelle had the best social game but I can't think of an episode or moment that was like "omg she totally deserves to win"

Taylor's new bestie.


Edited (05/20/16 05:14 PM)

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* Michele won because Aubry and Tai failed at the most important ingredient of winning Survivor. Remember, Jeff has always said what makes
trifecta
05/20/16 11:19 AM
xx * Michelle won because Cydney wanted to lez her up, and the 2 trolls Jason and Scott wanted to suck her boobs. Michelle was awful. NT
Tywyllwch *
05/26/16 09:30 AM
xx * It seems like every season of Survivor and Big Brother anymore
SpaceEVA
05/20/16 04:18 PM
xx * Or it could be that the structure of the game and luck combine to produce less than optimal results.
Blockhead
05/26/16 03:09 PM
xx * That's what I call "The Weakest Link Syndrome" (targeting the best players to eliminate before the finals). For the most part I agree
JAF
06/11/16 07:37 AM
xx * I think the challenges in Survivor do test mental and physical prowess on many levels. In BB, only the endurance comps do that. Most of the comps in
robin0
06/11/16 08:01 AM
xx * I'd agree that Survivor comps are more balanced and well-rounded games of skill. BB is more mixed. Some are skill games (often involving
JAF
06/11/16 10:30 AM
xx * But the thing is they have NO obligation to "reward game play," only to decide who gets the money. NT
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 06:27 AM
xx * True. NT
JAF
06/11/16 07:38 AM
xx * ^ Totally agree. Two schools of thought. 1.) The person who ENTERTAINED me the most should win. 2.) Best player should win. NT
tv_savage
05/26/16 02:36 PM
xx * 3rd school. Those that truly got screwed over. 2 examples...
colleenag
05/26/16 02:42 PM
xx * I really think it depends on the player. My biggest issue with Michele winning is just it doesn't look like she did much, idk it was the edit or
FurlessBat
05/20/16 05:11 PM
xx * I think it's her personality and her way of talking. And she never struggled like Tai & Aubrey, she just made her way to the end. She was less
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 08:27 AM
xx * You answered your own question. she didn't deserve to win. NT
MaddyP
05/21/16 05:15 AM
xx * If that's the case, then none of the 3 deserved to win. They all had deficiencies. Yes, Michele didn't make many strategic moves, but Aubry
JAF
05/21/16 06:29 AM
xx * Well, early on the beauty tribe dominated and they didn't get much airtime beyond Caleb/Tai. The beauty girls had formed an alliance and seemed
SpaceEVA
05/20/16 05:29 PM
xx * Excellent analysis. Not going to TC until Day 22 is a huge accomplishment and as far as I'm concerned the best strategic move you can make--you can't
Corndogger
05/20/16 06:31 PM
xx * That is not an individual accomplishment, nor is it strategic. If anything, it just taints the narrative of her "underdog" storyline. NT
ScottySayz
05/21/16 02:38 AM
xx * Yeah, working to make sure your tribe stays strong and that bonds are tight is not an individual accomplishment. NT
Corndogger
05/21/16 12:30 PM
xx * Caleb won the challenges; Tai and Caleb did the most around camp. Michelle benefitted by being born a female so she could be part of the women's
robin0
05/21/16 01:11 PM
xx * I recall the girls being a big part of some of those challenge wins. Michele was on the bottom of the girls' alliance because Julia & Anna bonded
Corndogger
05/21/16 02:08 PM
xx * At FTC, Julia said Michelle was dragged along as a number. NT
robin0
05/21/16 02:15 PM
xx * OK, ill bite. What happens when the win comes down to a question "will the dentist say he hates his patients OR that he is more physically appealing
colleenag
05/20/16 04:26 PM
xx * It doesn't really come down to a question in these instances. That's only what's seen on the surface in the moment. It's ultimately a test
SpaceEVA
05/20/16 04:40 PM
xx * wait wait wait...If Steve doesn't answer that question "A" and Vanessa doesn't answer that question "B" Vanessa wins...BUT I see what you are
colleenag
05/20/16 04:49 PM
xx * The point being there is people thought Steve was something he wasn't, he was a master at playing himself down. Vanessa actually did play things
SpaceEVA
05/20/16 05:01 PM
xx * This is where, perhaps, that we disagree. I don't think Steve's "under the radar" game was as important in his win as his social connection
colleenag
05/20/16 05:15 PM
xx * Yes, we would likely disagree then... looking at the big picture. Vanessa from very early on had built that connection with Steve.
SpaceEVA
05/20/16 05:37 PM
xx * Right. And Vanessa had no idea that Steve didn't trust her at all. NT
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 08:38 AM
xx * so just be quiet and be pretty and a jury may award you a million dollars? NT
Belle
05/20/16 11:29 AM
xx * Pretty much. If you don't make people want to reward you, and you bring a nice person to the final, you lose. There's no rule book that details a
trifecta
05/20/16 11:45 AM
xx * That's why Tai was correct on wanting Michelle out at F5. So I laughed when Audrey said she was on the right side of every vote. You would have been
CougarSpy
05/20/16 05:05 PM
xx * Yep. Even though Aubry feared Michele's social game she totally underestimated her challenge abilities and it probably cost her the game. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 06:34 PM
xx * So punish game play and reward doing nothing. And if the jury wants to vote based on who is tallest, there is nothing in the rules against it. NT
Blockhead
05/20/16 11:53 AM
xx * "there's nothing in the rules against it". There you go, now you understand the rules about declaring a winner. Parvati, Boston Rob, and many others
trifecta
05/20/16 12:25 PM
xx * Merit based results are better than random results.
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:00 PM
xx * Voting for the best game has never been what Survivor is. Some players choose to vote that way, some don't. Again, the trick is to vote people out
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 08:49 AM
xx * I didn't say they make sure the overall fan favorite wins, they just make sure that they don't have a fan hated player like Maggie. Name one winner
trifecta
05/20/16 02:45 PM
xx * Andy o-oNT
colleenag
05/20/16 03:31 PM
xx * Adam o-o NT
colleenag
05/20/16 03:29 PM
xx * Adam was well liked at the time and Andy was middle of the pack in a group of very unlikable contestants. I'm not saying they manipulate from the
trifecta
05/20/16 04:33 PM
xx * Andy was very much hated, by me for one. Adam was a bum. Both were not "fan favs" imho NT
colleenag
05/20/16 04:36 PM
xx * I don't think Andy was hated until he started badmouthing Elissa. NT
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 08:51 AM
xx * He was hated before that because he was team Amanda NT
FurlessBat
06/11/16 08:55 AM
xx * Maybe not liked, but not hated either. NT
FurnitureAlliance
06/11/16 09:04 AM
xx * Yep. That's when it started for me. I didn't care for him in the game but once he started saying those filthy things about her and stuff about
colleenag
06/11/16 08:54 AM
xx * But Andy is loved now. It would be a travesty if they did All Stars 2 without him. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 10:37 PM
xx * They weren't liked by the majority of Jokers. NT
robin0
05/20/16 05:06 PM
xx * Here's what you said, "since season 6 when BB decided they needed to make every winner a fan favorite to keep their audience" NT
Blockhead
05/20/16 02:48 PM
xx * "A fan favorite" not the "the top fan favorite". There is a difference. NT
trifecta
05/20/16 02:59 PM
xx * No one said you said "the top fan favorite"...just "a fan favorite"...? NT
colleenag
05/20/16 03:05 PM
xx * Blockhead insinuated that I did when debating back that if my theory was true, why didn't Janelle or Jeff ever win. Bottom of following post:
trifecta
05/20/16 03:34 PM
xx * Blockhead just helped shape your definition of "fan fav"... most of us when we hear "fav" we think the winner of AFP. NT
colleenag
05/20/16 03:37 PM
xx * Okay, well just to clarify, when I used the term, I only meant someone that was liked by the majority, unlike Maggie or Natalie(which by the way
trifecta
05/20/16 03:44 PM
xx * BTW, has anybody noticed the physical resemblance between Allison Grodner and Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Kind of ironic since both make their living
trifecta
05/20/16 03:51 PM
xx * They can even use skittles. NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:21 PM
xx * because belle didn't like jani NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:02 PM
xx * I thought Belle liked Jani.....
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:04 PM
xx * ack NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:06 PM
xx * Belle and I sadly disagreed on my Jani love, ha NT
wyndycty
05/20/16 01:37 PM
xx * Except that Michele didn't do nothing. Unless you think the game is only about who's leading the scheming to evict people.
JAF
05/20/16 12:03 PM
xx * Michele was marginally better than Aubry in comps. Aubry the game since at least the merge. There's nothing to indicate that Michele had a better
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:08 PM
xx * Here's a perfect example of where Aubry pissed someone off and it doesn't involve Jason, Scot or Julia. Her threatening to cut Neal's throat in his
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:39 PM
xx * Neal did not say that.
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:45 PM
xx * So he didn't say when he was asleep but he definitely said the rest and that's why he didn't give Aubry his HII. Or are you claiming his initial
Corndogger
05/20/16 10:13 PM
xx * This is Neal's initial tweet about his HII that he made the night his boot episode aired. Aubry's threat was not a smart move.
Corndogger
05/20/16 10:23 PM
xx * Still doesn't say anything about slitting his throat in his sleep. NT
robin0
05/20/16 10:30 PM
xx * See two posts above. I can't remember EVERYTHING verbatim! lol Point is what Aub said did hurt her in that situation. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 10:34 PM
xx * I wonder if Aubry had that idol how much it would have helped her. She got to f3 without it. NT
robin0
05/20/16 10:45 PM
xx * Would depend on how and if she used it. HII and power use this season was very poor as far as I'm concerned. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 11:56 PM
xx * Yeah, all 3 idols went out in pockets. Super idol never used. Advantage wasted. NT
robin0
05/21/16 04:21 AM
xx * IA with that. NT
robin0
05/20/16 10:44 PM
xx * Neal said that on Twitter and I believe elsewhere. What you are quoting below sounds like revisionist history. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 02:05 PM
xx * Here's a search of Neal's twitter feed for the term "sleep"
Blockhead
05/20/16 02:10 PM
xx * Lol yes, because it is much more reasonable to think Aubrey was being literal about cutting Neal's throat. NT
TheFly
05/20/16 02:09 PM
xx * if it happened why was it never refereed to? NT
Belle
05/20/16 02:08 PM
xx * Here's another interview saying the same thing
Blockhead
05/20/16 02:08 PM
xx * So what was in the jacket? NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:47 PM
xx * That I don't know. He didn't say and neither did Aubry. NT
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:48 PM
xx * I assumed it was the "threat" of an idol being passed? NT
colleenag
05/20/16 02:06 PM
xx * Good point NT
robin0
05/20/16 02:49 PM
xx * and a perfect example of production messing with us. I've heard the story why didn't it get shown on TV if Aubry was a horrible person show us
Belle
05/20/16 01:40 PM
xx * and why did Aubry want to cut Neal's throat? Is it just a rumor? NT
colleenag
05/20/16 02:02 PM
xx * Figure of speech. NT
robin0
05/20/16 02:48 PM
xx * Go back about two episodes and you'll hear Aubry herself say that Michele is a huge threat because she's well liked and has connections. Others said
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:33 PM
xx * Michele said that Aubry was the biggest threat to win the million dollars and they had to get her out at F4. NT
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:46 PM
xx * They should have listened to Tai when he cast his 2 votes for Michelle. NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:41 PM
xx * Aubry won one individual or team (after the merge) challenge & Michele won four. Michele also won when she had to. She's was much better at comps. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:28 PM
xx * Marginally?!? Not even close. Aubry won just ONE reward comp post-merge, plus a 1-on-1 fire challenge against Cydney who couldn't
JAF
05/20/16 01:25 PM
xx * So Michele gets credit for group wins but was she an integral part of the wins? Was Aubry the reason why her teams lost?
Blockhead
05/20/16 01:38 PM
xx * Fine, subtract the 2 group wins and it's still 4 to 2. Really more like 4 to 1.3, if we're downgrading for degree of difficulty.
JAF
05/20/16 02:39 PM
xx * Maybe Michele would have won the advantage if she played for it but she didn't need to b/c her social game had put her in a better spot than Tai
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:42 PM
xx * Michelle herself stated that she was always on the bottom. I don't think that qualifies as a superior social game. NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:24 PM
xx * That's strategy game, not social. Social means people liking you, or more importantly, not disliking you.
JAF
05/20/16 01:31 PM
xx * Well, they couldn't have liked her much if she was always considered for the next to leave. NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:38 PM
xx * Not really. Lots of well-liked people are sent packing. In fact, that's often a REASON that they're sent packing. NT
JAF
05/20/16 01:40 PM
xx * michelle voted tai on that vote because she didn't even know what was going on right? she was completely out of the loop NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:33 PM
xx * that's where some are saying IF Aubry had brought Michele into the discussion to vote out Scot Michele may have gotten her hands dirty NT
colleenag
05/20/16 01:50 PM
xx * Which means she wasn't part of the cabal blindsiding Scot (and thereby Jason and Julia). She didn't get her hands dirty.
JAF
05/20/16 01:39 PM
xx * Then Joe, Ozzy & Rupert should of won. NT
Adamlovechild1
05/20/16 12:48 PM
xx * Rupert did win the other two didn't make it to the end right? that's kind of requirement NT
Belle
05/20/16 12:51 PM
xx * I think he lost every time he played, but he got $1 mil fan fave. NT
robin0
05/20/16 01:18 PM
xx * Rupert never won Survivor. In All Stars they had that stupid fan vote where they gave him $1 million as a fan favorite. Given how bad of a player
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:13 PM
xx * Since Michelle herself couldn't explain 1 strategic move she made in the game, she shouldn't of won. Yes, winning the last 2 comps are good points
Adamlovechild1
05/20/16 01:18 PM
xx * That's what happened Season 1 to Kelly Wigglesworth. She was supposed to be voted out, but kept winning immunity. That immunity run did not help her
robin0
05/20/16 01:32 PM
xx * and IMO rich deserved the win he had played the game since day one NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:33 PM
xx * i read rumors that Hatch got the idea of "alliance" from production. That if not for production that woman who was slaying as being able to
colleenag
05/20/16 01:53 PM
xx * Hatch was from the corporate world. I took a class on strategic alliances in my MBA program. NT
robin0
05/20/16 02:43 PM
xx * did you watch? I thought almost the minute they landed on the island hatch was working for alliances? NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:53 PM
xx * good question...I came into that first season a lil late, right before or after that woman (whose name i can't remember) was voted out and at the time
colleenag
05/20/16 02:20 PM
xx * thanks :) I was thinking he won one time. I guess like you said he got fan favorite I disagree I think Michele was horrible NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:14 PM
xx * Michele wasn't flashy but that doesn't equate to being horrible. NT
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:19 PM
xx * she was there.....Julia said we drug you for the numbers and this is who they chose to win?? the numbers girl? NT
Belle
05/20/16 01:19 PM
xx * That's Julia's version of the story. Michele said she was constantly reigning in Julia and that she drug Julia into an alliance she didn't want
Corndogger
05/20/16 01:24 PM
xx * Michelle kept her mouth shut and when she did open it after Julia was gone her strategic game play was weak. Her thinking she had Tai & telling Cyndy
Adamlovechild1
05/20/16 04:03 PM

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